That may be, though I had an interesting experience only a couple years ago, I randomly picked up a random old late-career Kerouac book, which was really just a sloppy rant about nonsense, but the charisma absolutely jumped off the page, I was really surprised
Having just read and LOVED The Master and Margarita I almost fell off my chair when I saw it ranked at no.2 in ‘Bad Classics’. This makes no sense to me and pretty much invalidates the entire post but hey, I know, lists like these are subjective and just a bit of fun.
Yeah is one of my all time favourites, I read it twice and got a tattoo of my first impressions (I waited the whole book to find the bit where the devil would drink margaritas but alas...)
I appreciated M/M, perhaps not as well as one might if they also totally enjoyed it. It was a difficult book. I read Goethe’s Faust concurrently which enhanced my experience. Loved the Pontius Pilate fan fiction.
I enjoy books that I feel more than those that I just understand, or find some joy in the technical elements. M/M had some funny moments, for example the whole “second freshness” bit for sure. It never made me want to cry, and it definitely felt like it took a long time to finish.
I looooooved it when I read it at age 18 but I was a kid from a comp rejected by Oxbridge, so it probably fed into my right on feeling of oppression. I’ll try it again. It’s been a long time.
Picture of Dorian Gray being on the “bad” list is just unbearable for me. I wrote my undergrad thesis on it, and on Wilde himself. In my opinion it is a great book, but ultimately a matter of taste, I suppose. Historical context—and the life of Wilde—give it a lot more color.
Funny. Just the other day sent this message to a friend:
"I have realized that when I savor reading a good book, I slow down a lot when I am almost through with it. At this point, It has become a dear fiend, a companionship that I don't want to let go."
In the last week, I gave my unread copy of Anna Karenina to a second-hand store and separately acquired War and Peace. This time maybe I'd better work up to reading it instead of casting it off. I think I only finished one book in the last 2 years though (The Body Keeps the Score) so the first step will be to get off my phone and go tend my vegetables in the garden.
You could listen to War and Peace on audio book and tend your vege garden at the same time, that's what I did after starting to read the book and giving up for the third time. (It's just too huge a tome to read in bed)
Pretty good, though I'd take the asterisk off Crime and Punishment and Fight Club. They're just classic classics. Did you miss Jane Eyre? I also feel vindicated, re: The Master and Margarita. If we're doing modern classics, I feel like this list could use some Coetzee, Ferrante, Kingsolver, Robinson, July, Saunders, and Heti.
I’m surprised to see the red and the black at the top of the shit list. I really liked it. But much of your list does resonate - war and peace is the best novel ever written and everybody should read it.
I adored the Red and the Black, and my grown children did also. Hint: it’s not about the plot. It helps also to have some background in French history. Better still if you can read French
I read it in Russian for the first time ever recently. I understand why it appeals to many but I found it to be gobbledygook but did appreciate a lot of the Soviet era descriptions of life.
At a guess, because he hasn't read it? He's pretty up front about not having read every single enormously long novel that has ever been considered good.
I'd much prefer someone make a list of stuff they've actually read, with inevitable omissions, rather than including things they saw in other people's lists but haven't read themselves, in order to sound clever.
So many things. He's such a masterful storyteller. He weaves together multiple characters and threads in a way that draws you in. It's a complex narrative structure — kind of concentric circles — but beautifully executed. The characters are all flawed, inseparable from their time and place, but also somehow very individual and strange. He writes with a depth and specificity you only see in great writers.
Of course, it's dark — a classic Southern gothic. He doesn't shrink from ugliness, but there's also something very compassionate about the way he tells the story.
I don't know if I'm doing it justice! I've convinced myself that I want to read it again though.
Looks like I have a lot of reading to do. I've only read about 5 or 6 on that list, and more on the "bad" list than the "good" one.
I agree Robinson Crusoe and Vilette are bad. Vilette isn't a terrible novel, but as I've never been able to finish it I think it can safely be put under "bad". Gulliver's Travels is a shade better than either of these (it's readable), but hardly would make any sort of top books list, and I wouldn't really recommend it. I slightly disagree about Great Expectations; it's actually worth reading (just as an adventure), but it isn't a top-20 sort of thing, certainly; and isn't Dickens' best work either.
Of the good ones, the only ones I've read are Pride and Prejudice, 1984, Huckleberry Finn and Anne Frank. These are all readable, but P&P is leagues above the other three. And it's not even the best Austen novel. All six are among the best novels ever written in my book (no pun intended).
Odd to include Vilette but not Jane Eyre. Jane Eyre is better, also worth reading, but not nearly as good as Austen. The Tenant of Wildfell Hall would be near the top of my list, but I wouldn't bother with any of the rest of the Bronte's (especially not Wuthering Heights, which is awful).
The Hobbit should be on any list. Don't bother with any of the rest of Tolkien.
I enjoyed a farewell to arms more than the sun also rises. But I guess the reviews of a farewell to arms are pretty polarizing some people love it some people think it sucks
I’ve seen better taste at a Kid Rock concert.
Better taste in a can of Old Milwaukee
OK, I will raise you with a warm can of Old Milwaukee I found in the barn by the sparrows nest.
Read your review of Orbital. Good arguments there, but think you overestimate Kid Rock. Cowboy…then what?
The whole list is great until you get to the bad classics; it then becomes completely insane.
A picture of Dorian grey being bad?? Absolutely not
Exactly.
The cruelest thing you can do to Jack Kerouac is reread him at 38
That may be, though I had an interesting experience only a couple years ago, I randomly picked up a random old late-career Kerouac book, which was really just a sloppy rant about nonsense, but the charisma absolutely jumped off the page, I was really surprised
Interesting. I actually haven't re-read since college! But Dharma Bums has been on my list lately
He writes extraordinarily well about childhood. Don’t give up on him without reading Doctor Sax and Maggie Cassidy.
Having just read and LOVED The Master and Margarita I almost fell off my chair when I saw it ranked at no.2 in ‘Bad Classics’. This makes no sense to me and pretty much invalidates the entire post but hey, I know, lists like these are subjective and just a bit of fun.
Master and Margarita is one of the great novels of the 20th century. It gets better with each reading.
Yeah is one of my all time favourites, I read it twice and got a tattoo of my first impressions (I waited the whole book to find the bit where the devil would drink margaritas but alas...)
I appreciated M/M, perhaps not as well as one might if they also totally enjoyed it. It was a difficult book. I read Goethe’s Faust concurrently which enhanced my experience. Loved the Pontius Pilate fan fiction.
I enjoy books that I feel more than those that I just understand, or find some joy in the technical elements. M/M had some funny moments, for example the whole “second freshness” bit for sure. It never made me want to cry, and it definitely felt like it took a long time to finish.
I feel like Jude the Obscure is aching and relatable but then again I’m an English person from a bad neighbourhood who went to Oxbridge 😅😭
also the unbearable lightness of being on the bad list to me is crazy lmaoo
oh..i felt that. If I were left on a desert island with the books from one author to read for the rest of my life, it would be his.
I looooooved it when I read it at age 18 but I was a kid from a comp rejected by Oxbridge, so it probably fed into my right on feeling of oppression. I’ll try it again. It’s been a long time.
Picture of Dorian Gray being on the “bad” list is just unbearable for me. I wrote my undergrad thesis on it, and on Wilde himself. In my opinion it is a great book, but ultimately a matter of taste, I suppose. Historical context—and the life of Wilde—give it a lot more color.
I really like Wilde actually! I think about him all the time. I just didn’t like that book
Any list of great lit that doesn't include The Portrait of A Lady or Magic Mountain is just hog swill.
These are the only two books I can remember deliberately slowing my reading so as to avoid coming to the end in my life as a voracious reader.
And Jude the Obscure is wonderful. Shallow middle-class poseurs need not apply.
Funny. Just the other day sent this message to a friend:
"I have realized that when I savor reading a good book, I slow down a lot when I am almost through with it. At this point, It has become a dear fiend, a companionship that I don't want to let go."
Excellent!
In the last week, I gave my unread copy of Anna Karenina to a second-hand store and separately acquired War and Peace. This time maybe I'd better work up to reading it instead of casting it off. I think I only finished one book in the last 2 years though (The Body Keeps the Score) so the first step will be to get off my phone and go tend my vegetables in the garden.
You could listen to War and Peace on audio book and tend your vege garden at the same time, that's what I did after starting to read the book and giving up for the third time. (It's just too huge a tome to read in bed)
👍
Agree with a majority of this except for the Great Gatsby which should be way down the line.
Yes, along with Mrs. Dalloway. #hottake
Pretty good, though I'd take the asterisk off Crime and Punishment and Fight Club. They're just classic classics. Did you miss Jane Eyre? I also feel vindicated, re: The Master and Margarita. If we're doing modern classics, I feel like this list could use some Coetzee, Ferrante, Kingsolver, Robinson, July, Saunders, and Heti.
Fair. I tried not to put anything on from the last couple decades, but aside from that my inclusion of modern classics was almost entirely random
The first rule of classics lists is: you talk about reordering the classics lists.
The second rule of classics lists is:...
OK, I came here just to make that lame joke. Thanks for the list though.
I’m surprised to see the red and the black at the top of the shit list. I really liked it. But much of your list does resonate - war and peace is the best novel ever written and everybody should read it.
I adored the Red and the Black, and my grown children did also. Hint: it’s not about the plot. It helps also to have some background in French history. Better still if you can read French
I feel vindicated seeing The Master and Margarita in the bad section. Must be better in Russian
Them’s fighting words. The Master and Margarita is a brilliant novel.
I read it in Russian for the first time ever recently. I understand why it appeals to many but I found it to be gobbledygook but did appreciate a lot of the Soviet era descriptions of life.
The extent to which I disagree with this ranking is palpable but my most important question is why is Moby Dick not here at all!
At a guess, because he hasn't read it? He's pretty up front about not having read every single enormously long novel that has ever been considered good.
I'd much prefer someone make a list of stuff they've actually read, with inevitable omissions, rather than including things they saw in other people's lists but haven't read themselves, in order to sound clever.
Spot on!
The bad classics list is, uhhh, objectionable, at least in part. Kundera?! Bellow?! Koestler?!
(With Bellow I’m tempted to ask what else you’ve read. Dangling Man and The Victim are both very good imo.)
Agree. Bellow is fantastic. Not for everyone but damn powerful writer. https://michaelmohr.substack.com/p/writers-versus-the-world
Faulkner? Light in August is one of my all time favorite books (read and reread).
I have not read Faulkner but have wanted to. What is it about this book that you treasure?
So many things. He's such a masterful storyteller. He weaves together multiple characters and threads in a way that draws you in. It's a complex narrative structure — kind of concentric circles — but beautifully executed. The characters are all flawed, inseparable from their time and place, but also somehow very individual and strange. He writes with a depth and specificity you only see in great writers.
Of course, it's dark — a classic Southern gothic. He doesn't shrink from ugliness, but there's also something very compassionate about the way he tells the story.
I don't know if I'm doing it justice! I've convinced myself that I want to read it again though.
Looks like I have a lot of reading to do. I've only read about 5 or 6 on that list, and more on the "bad" list than the "good" one.
I agree Robinson Crusoe and Vilette are bad. Vilette isn't a terrible novel, but as I've never been able to finish it I think it can safely be put under "bad". Gulliver's Travels is a shade better than either of these (it's readable), but hardly would make any sort of top books list, and I wouldn't really recommend it. I slightly disagree about Great Expectations; it's actually worth reading (just as an adventure), but it isn't a top-20 sort of thing, certainly; and isn't Dickens' best work either.
Of the good ones, the only ones I've read are Pride and Prejudice, 1984, Huckleberry Finn and Anne Frank. These are all readable, but P&P is leagues above the other three. And it's not even the best Austen novel. All six are among the best novels ever written in my book (no pun intended).
Odd to include Vilette but not Jane Eyre. Jane Eyre is better, also worth reading, but not nearly as good as Austen. The Tenant of Wildfell Hall would be near the top of my list, but I wouldn't bother with any of the rest of the Bronte's (especially not Wuthering Heights, which is awful).
The Hobbit should be on any list. Don't bother with any of the rest of Tolkien.
I enjoyed a farewell to arms more than the sun also rises. But I guess the reviews of a farewell to arms are pretty polarizing some people love it some people think it sucks
I find all of Hemingway totally bogus. It's all a matter of taste really. isn't it?